TTee commentary

[fileg]

As most of you who spend time in the mail with me know, I have no problem with movie!Faramir - in fact, I am quite besotted with him, though he will never be book!Faramir for me. That's only partly to do with movie plot, it has much more to do with nearly fourty years of the image in my own head.

But, while I don't struggle with the movie interpretation of Faramir, I am getting more and more annoyed listening to the commentary from Peter, Fran and Phillipa. You made a choice, don't get all defensive about it now!

And good grief, the visuals and dialog in the movie allow me to give Faramir, in my own interpretation, in my own head - the strength I know he has, and that I *need* his mythic avatar to have. So just stop explaining, because the more you do, the more pissed off I am getting.

I am *crazed* at Peter talking about Faramir's ring temptation, which visually I never see -- and I would like to keep it that way, thanks! I watched the scene with the sword tip and the ring. I never hear the ring call Faramir by name. What I see is Frodo getting crazed

Fileg puts fingers in ears and concentrates on the sound of Faramir's voice saying "I am wise enough to know that there are some perils from which a man must flee."

I have been trying since last December to say this coherently, but here is part of a note Azalais wrote to the Henneth Annun mailing list:

given that in the EE they'd set us up with Denethor's assumption that Faramir is too weak to handle the Ring, it would have been fantastic to show F as too *strong* to contemplate taking it. Huge opportunity lost :(

That's it -- that's what I have been trying to say. Not all temptation is about giving in. Thank you, Azalais!

I just came in from watching the director's commentary, and at the end, Fran or Phillipa talks about Sam's speech - how there is still some good in this world, and goes on to say there are some things that are just inviolable, above the dark. Yes, there are - and Faramir is my avatar for that. How can you say this and not get it?

And while I am having a moment of personal melt down - Boromir in the boat is Not a dream.
ok, I think I feel better now.

Comments

[undonne.livejournal.com]

I am *crazed* at Peter talking about Faramir's ring temptation, which visually I never see -- and I would like to keep it that way, thanks!

I just got back from a day at the national convention of the American Academy of Religion. Heard a couple of excellent papers on Tolkien, *but* in the Q&A session after in a discussion about the corrupting power of the ring, someone said that only Tom Bombadil was impervious to its power and that maybe Tolkien was saying that only non-humans were immune (??!!). I didn't want to interrupt the speaker's response but I was thinking about Faramir saying that he would't pick it up if it was lying on the road. Grrrrr! The fact that remark could even be made shows how the movies weird interp of Faramir has become imbedded. Really a shame.

And while I am having a moment of personal melt down - Boromir in the boat is Not a dream.

Thank you. It really bothered me in the extended when they had the boat "disappear," implying that is was only in his mind. Grrrrr again!

[cruisedirector]

Personally? If Faramir is really truly incapable of being tempted, then to me that means he is not human. And he stops mattering to me at all. It's like watching movies about Jesus where Jesus never has that moment of doubt on the cross that proves that he IS human, not just God wearing flesh like clothing -- "Why have you forsaken me?"

The idea of the Perfect Man leaves me ice cold. If the Ring calls to Faramir, and he walks away...that's strength. If he was born missing whatever gene it is that makes all the REST of us capable of temptation, but not him...that's not strength, that's the person I remember loathing in the books when I first read them, because his strength is a gift from on high and has nothing to do with real life, real choices.

[undonne.livejournal.com]

Personally? If Faramir is really truly incapable of being tempted, then to me that means he is not human. And he stops mattering to me at all.

Exactly the reason I think the reason Faramir didn't appeal to me in the book was that (rightly or wrongly) I read him as a goody-two-shoes -- too good to be true or at least too good to seem like a rounded human being. And in the scene in "Window of the West" he does basically say that "Boromir, the proud and fearless often rash, ever anxious for the victory of Minas Tirith (and his own glory therein), might desire such a thing and be allured by it." Then basically goes on to say that it was a shame that sent Boromir (implying that he wouldn't have been tempted ?).

I like the extendedmovie!Faramir much, much better. He is tempted, but turned away from it by his better nature, his realization of what is at stake, and his realization of what it did to his beloved brother.

[cruisedirector]

I like EE!Faramir much better too, and I understand that fans of book!Faramir would be worried that people who saw the theatrical release and have never read the book would have no idea who Faramir was. But I still prefer movie!Faramir, even the incomplete one in the theatrical release, to the one in the book whom I never related to -- goody two shoes was exactly how I felt about it. I like the balance between the brothers so much better in the films.

[fileg.livejournal.com]

Faramir is very much capable of being tempted! What makes him strong is that he recognizes that and resists it. Thats what he is talking about when he tells Frodo Don't show me the ring - knowing about it is hard enough. "I do not wish to see it, or touch it, or know more of it than I know (which is enough), lest peril perchance waylay me and I fall lower in the test than Frodo son of Drogo."

He is saying that again when he says "I am wise enough to know that there are some perils from which a man must flee." - he knows the limits of his strength, and he finds the thought of crossing them for no reason foolish.

I know not everyone sees this Faramir, and I know that you know I love movie!Faramir. The movie leaves enough room for us both to reach for the interpretation we need - just as the best of the book does. The commentary is what pissed me off. I don't want to be spoonfed Peter's Faramir (especially since Peter often does NOT seem to have a clear myth- he seems to be changing his mind over and over as he talks.) I want to embrace Faramir's movie archetype with my own heart. I have plenty of space for others to do the same.

[cruisedirector]

I didn't feel like the commentary was spoon-feeding me Jackson's Faramir so much as showing what Jackson and Boyens went through to come up with a Faramir who would make both a certain group of Tolkien purists (since that group is by no means homogenous) and the studio that wanted an action movie happy. There were bound to be inconsistencies, and he seems quite aware that he is making not definitive myth but myth constructed within the boundaries of the marketplace of popular entertainment, which doesn't really bother me; I still think there's less formulaic pandering in the films of LOTR than in ninety percent of the genre fantasy I see coming out of the big publishing houses. They took a lot of criticism from serious Tolkien fans and I don't blame them for feeling defensive and wanting to try to explain; I like the fact that they even bothered, which is something that, say, George Lucas never did with any of his more absurd-seeming decisions in the SW films.

[fileg.livejournal.com]

I have such sympathy for book!Faramir when he keeps repeating it was not a dream - and no one listens. As if Faramir, of all people, would not recognize a dream!

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Boromir in the boat is Not a dream.

Oh good! I thought it was just me thought that!

Faramir and Temptation

[(Anonymous)]

Hi Tay

I too don't mind movie-Faramir, even though he is not book-Faramir, because he does work cinematically (except his comment to Frodo that they understand each other still feels like a non-sequitur from everything we have seen up to that point).

Fileg puts fingers in ears and concentrates on the sound of Faramir's voice saying "I am wise enough to know that there are some perils from which a man must flee."

Me too! It's the one line from the book I really wish they had put in.

Listening to some of the EE DVD extras, I did find it slightly reassuring they felt they didn't spend enough time exploring alternatives (or as much as they had for some other characters, at least) - but as they still seemed to be labouring under the misapprehension that book-Faramir is never tempted by the ring, I have little hope they would have done things in a vastly different way.

Cheers, Liz/Alsotanaqui

(PS, glad to see your four lovely arcana drabbles were accepted on HASA.)

[fileg.livejournal.com]

Hi Liz!

I am trying at the moment to keep my head clear for RoTK (though it now looks like it may be another year to get the full effect of what I need to see).

Whatever they do, at this point shallow as it seems, I will always be grateful for David Wenham in the White Tree leathers!

Thanks for noticing the drabbles. I am afraid I sent them to review with the idea of raising a few hackles, and I was very surprised not to encounter any real opposition to the form. Hasa never ceases to better my expectations, and I seem to do my best work there. I miss the on-line challenges very much - they always sweep me up in the excitement of the moment.