And for god's sake, I want him to stop saying "It's simple."
Fair enough, because it's anything but simple.
And as fair turn about, I want John Kerry to stop lecturing the President on the *real science of stem cell research* - you at least know me well enough to know that I wouldn't say anything about it if I hadn't done my homework on the subject. I wasn't really sure from your post exactly where you stood on the subject, but your point about hypocrisy is understood.
And since my nephew is headed for Iraq, and I have friends who are still in Afganistan, helping to rebuild that country's medical infrastructure after all the devastation it has suffered over the past twenty years of warfare and oppression under the Soviets and the Taliban, I'm not keen on any war. But as you point out yourself, it isn't always that simple. I wish to God it was.
Ness, I don't want to repeat myself endlessly in comments, so you might want to check out some of the other responses.
I would never think you would take a side without doing your research. And I would never let sides of an issue come between us or how I feel about you.
My original point was not meant to be stem cells good - but why are some lives worth more than others?
I don't trust *anyone* who goes into politics by choice. I don't think anyone can keep all their promises, I think they *all* discover it's harder than they thought, and I think they *all* say what they think people want to hear.
Propaganda is, and always will be a big issue for me. I have never gotten over viet-nam.
I agree with you about propaganda. One of the countless things that upsets me about war is the dehumanization of the "enemy" and the longterm effects that has on people. It goes hand-in-hand with war, to convince yourself that the other side is less than human, since most people have a hard-wired taboo against killing others. Part of the romanticization of war focuses only on the situations in which people are fighting for self-defense or their buddies or their country, but that's not all there is to it, is there? I had an uncle who was vilely prejudiced against Asians all the rest of his life because he was conditioned to feel that way in Vietnam. He hadn't been before. On some level he knew it was wrong but he couldn't shake it.
Many Iraqis now see their fight as defending their homeland against invaders (as many Vietnamese did). Who's to call them "wrong," considering what they've experienced?
No politician is going to go on record saying that they think American lives are worth more than Iraqi lives because it would be such a horrible sound bite, but isn't the mentality underlying all the bombing, the "collateral damage," the refusal to count Iraqi civilian casualties or even mention them in the news? Isn't that always the unspoken dirty truth of war?
I disagree that it's true. Profoundly. Deeply. Absolutely. And while it's possible to argue over whether frozen embryos or three-week-old fetuses are "human life" (personality, I do not believe they are, but certainly reasonable people can disagree), there is NO arguing whether the Iraqi men, women, and children killed by US bombing are. That to me is as unquestionably, simply murder as killing a store clerk during a robbery. The only difference is that some people believe for some reason that the "robbery" is somehow "justified."
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branchandroot
no subject
Date: 2004-10-09 01:25 pm (UTC)What got to me is the hipocracy of a man who is bombing civilians wanting to be know as a champion of right to life.
And for god's sake, I want him to stop saying "It's simple."
no subject
Date: 2004-10-09 02:25 pm (UTC)And as fair turn about, I want John Kerry to stop lecturing the President on the *real science of stem cell research* - you at least know me well enough to know that I wouldn't say anything about it if I hadn't done my homework on the subject. I wasn't really sure from your post exactly where you stood on the subject, but your point about hypocrisy is understood.
And since my nephew is headed for Iraq, and I have friends who are still in Afganistan, helping to rebuild that country's medical infrastructure after all the devastation it has suffered over the past twenty years of warfare and oppression under the Soviets and the Taliban, I'm not keen on any war. But as you point out yourself, it isn't always that simple. I wish to God it was.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-09 06:48 pm (UTC)I would never think you would take a side without doing your research. And I would never let sides of an issue come between us or how I feel about you.
My original point was not meant to be stem cells good - but why are some lives worth more than others?
I don't trust *anyone* who goes into politics by choice. I don't think anyone can keep all their promises, I think they *all* discover it's harder than they thought, and I think they *all* say what they think people want to hear.
Propaganda is, and always will be a big issue for me. I have never gotten over viet-nam.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-10 03:46 pm (UTC)Many Iraqis now see their fight as defending their homeland against invaders (as many Vietnamese did). Who's to call them "wrong," considering what they've experienced?
No politician is going to go on record saying that they think American lives are worth more than Iraqi lives because it would be such a horrible sound bite, but isn't the mentality underlying all the bombing, the "collateral damage," the refusal to count Iraqi civilian casualties or even mention them in the news? Isn't that always the unspoken dirty truth of war?
I disagree that it's true. Profoundly. Deeply. Absolutely. And while it's possible to argue over whether frozen embryos or three-week-old fetuses are "human life" (personality, I do not believe they are, but certainly reasonable people can disagree), there is NO arguing whether the Iraqi men, women, and children killed by US bombing are. That to me is as unquestionably, simply murder as killing a store clerk during a robbery. The only difference is that some people believe for some reason that the "robbery" is somehow "justified."